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Thollem. Photo by ACVilla
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By David Cristol
Thollem McDonas – or simply Thollem according to which album cover
you’re looking at – is a pianist, keyboardist, songwriter, vocalist,
and activist whose work straddles free jazz, new classical,
improvisation, film scores, punk rock, art pop, the minimalist and the
maximalist, the avant-garde and all kinds of experimental music, from
(acoustic and electric) solo to large ensembles, and countless
collaborations which include, in addition to those featured in the
following interview, Jad Fair (from Half Japanese), drummers Brian
Chase (from the Yeah Yeah Yeahs), Sara Lund (from Unwound) and Gino
Robair, French guitar improviser Jean-Marc Montera, pedal steel
virtuoso Susan Alcorn, Chicago cornetist Rob Mazurek, New York bass
player Michael Bisio, … With a restless and fiercely independent work
ethic and wide-open aesthetic vistas,
Thollem’s music doesn’t fit easily into any genre or category,which
might confuse the most dedicated listener and doesn't help make his music
marketable. An oeuvre so multifaceted in
scope it's almost impossible to grasp – let's try anyway, through the
artist’s own words.
There are many sides to Thollem, whose creativity knows no bounds.
P.S. The Gowanus Session, by Thollem/Parker/Cline (Porter Records,
2012), was this listener’s introduction to Thollem’s music, and not a
bad entry point in the sprawling discography.
***
Growing up in a musical environment
Both of my parents were pianists, though kind of at opposite ends of the
spectrum. My mom was a classical pianist and my dad played in piano bars.
Although I didn’t know him very well growing up, they both had a big
influence on my musical perspectives and interests. I was born and raised
in the San Francisco Bay Area and exposed to much music from all of the
communities represented there. It had a huge impact on my way of seeing the
world and experiencing music.
The piano
Piano music was all around me growing up. One of my earliest memories is
crawling up and into my mom’s piano and playing the inside. I studied
classical piano music and have been improvising and composing for as long
as I can remember. I was very fortunate that I grew up in an environment
where music was integral to our lives, and my creative interests were
encouraged. My mom was also very strict, which I’m thankful for now!
Influences
I grew up studying and performing classical piano music, so those 450 years
of musical history definitely shaped me as a pianist. I also had the great
fortune to have access to the Kuumbwa Jazz Club in Santa Cruz, California,
where my stepsister was, and still is, the chef. Anyone who has played there
knows Cheryl and her food! I started going to shows there when I was 12, and
heard Elvin Jones, McCoy Tyner,
Toshiko Akiyoshi
, Pharaoh Sanders and many others. At the same time, West
coast punk was in its heyday and had a huge influence as well. I went to
the Cabrillo Music Festival each year. My mom studied with composer
Lou Harrison, and I attended classes with her. I was
influenced by music from all of the communities from the Bay Area, like
salsa, norteño, taiko, gamelan, West African, Eritrean, and on and on…
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| Photo by ACVilla |
Playing style
My playing in certain contexts has elements that make it distinct, but I’m
more interested in approaching each musical situation as a unique event and
expression. I have always thought of myself as an explorational musician and
a serial collaborator. Collaboration for me means the opportunity to
discover something new about myself in relation to others. As a solo
pianist I incorporate many influences but people on many occasions said
they knew it was me from the first moments of listening. As a songwriter I
am continuously pushing myself. I’m inspired by music from all eras and
places. I dropped out of school and society for the most part, during the
buildup to the Persian Gulf War in 1990, and spent years living out of a
backpack, devoted to organizing and protesting. This was a profound break
from everything I had been preparing for up to that point in my life. It
took years to figure out how to participate in this society in a way that
was aligned with my values, and at one point I had kind of a nervous
breakdown realizing that I had neglected playing music throughout my 20s. I
mention this because it had a huge impact on the way I approached music
again coming back. I had burned every bridge I had built up to that point
and had to start from the ashes. My first real tour was in 2005 when I was
38 years old, so I’ve felt like I had a lot of catching up to do and all of
this is what has created a deep urgency in my work.
Europe
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My first time playing in France was 2006 with an Italian outfit of misfits
called Squarcicatrici led by
Jacopo Andreini. Jacopo and I
originally met at the Olympia Experimental Music Festival that
Arrington de Dionyso
was directing. On the tour I met
Pierre Barouh and his son
who invited me to release a solo piano album on the Saravah label, called
SoMuchHeaven SoMuchHell. The following year I was invited to play
a concert on the only piano
Debussy owned for the last 14
years of his life, which is housed at Musée Labenche in Brive-La-Gaillarde.
For the first half of the concert, I performed works of Debussy's that he
wrote on that piano, and for the second half I was joined by Italian double
bass player
Stefano Scodanibbio, with whom we improvised
within a structure. French artist
Delphine Dora got in
touch and invited me to release something on her label Wild Silence. At the
time, I was going through old tapes that I found when clearing out my mom’s
house after her death, recordings of me as a teenager playing compositions
of my own and others. I collected them together and titled the album
Dear Future
. Most recently I was in Marseille for a week with the Sicilian Improvisers
Orchestra (SIO) hosted by Grand8 – both are large ensembles dedicated to
improvised music. I have taken on a temporary long-term role with SIO after
its founder
Lelio Giannetto died of Covid in 2020. I was
there at the right moment to help keep the ensemble going. They had always
performed under the guidance of a visiting artist, and I had given several
workshops and collaborated with many of the members over the years. Grand8
is a more anarchic ensemble, without a leader, and each year they invite
another ensemble to Marseille for a week of collaborations and
performances. SIO and I have our second album coming out this spring, after
OmniLelioMatic (Superpang, 2023). I have a punk band in Italy
called Tsigoti, that released our fifth album last year. In 2012, we did an
anti-mafia tour throughout Italy in conjunction with anti-mafia
organizations and anti-mafia events. When we were driving South and arrived
in Napoli, my bandmates said,
“now everything changes”. That was an
interesting moment. We didn’t have any issues, and I don’t know how
effective we were, but it was important to us and to what the band is
about. In Portugal I’ve put out albums with
Ernesto Rodrigues
’ Creative Sources label and collaborated with great improvisers including
Carlos Zingaro as well as members of a noise rock band
called dUASsEMIcOLCHEIASiNVERTIDAS. We formed a band called Para Poupar
Coma Merde
[to save money, eat shit].
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| Photo by ACVilla |
Terry Riley
I first met Terry at a party at
Joan Jeanrenaud’s house in
San Francisco around 2007. I grew up on the West Coast and was steeped in
his music, and feel very aligned in many ways philosophically. At the party
I gave him
Racing The Sun, Chasing The Sun which was a new album
of mine at the time, and later he told me that he listened to it over and
over again on his trips to LA while he was developing
Hurricane Mama Blues
, his huge organ work at the Disney Concert Hall. When I was invited to
perform on Debussy’s piano I was inspired to invite Stefano Scodanibbio and
asked Terry if he would put in a good word for me. Stefano and I then met
in Brive the night before our performance and Terry wrote the liner notes
for the album. With
The Light is Real
[2023 trio album with Riley and Nels Cline
] I had an epiphany when I was in New Mexico. My Suegra
[mother-in-law]
had painted a mural of a redwood forest in her bathroom, and the light was
streaming through the window. I took the photo and thought
“the light is real”
and
“Terry Riley”. So, I mentioned this to Terry and he was up for
the idea, which was simply to vocalize together spontaneously. We had a
great time. Later,
Yuka Honda recorded Nels and me in
their home in New York and I mixed it together. Other Minds Records wanted
to put it out which felt appropriate because of their historical connection
with Terry.
Film scores
I’ve primarily worked with the animator Martha Colburn and
my partner ACVilla. They both have extremely different
approaches to their work, so that also changes my approach. Martha composed
her film, Triumph of the Wild, to my music; and I composed the
score to ACVilla’s video works. Currently we are developing a project
called Stories About People and Everyone Else. We’ll be performing
it at the University of Illinois, Trinosophes in Detroit, and Lisbon and
Zurich this spring.
ACVilla
ACVilla and I have been collaborating together for over thirty years, in
life and in our work. She was an inter-city bilingual teacher for many
years before taking the leap into joining me full-time on the road fifteen
years ago. She’s also collaborated with artists including, most notably,
the Rova Saxophone Quartet. We’ve been quite prolific together as well
collaborating on projects such as
Who Are U.S. In 2016, we
traveled throughout the lower forty-eight states documenting the points
where people came into contact with each other and the environment.
Artists Engaged
is a long-term series of interviews and profiles of artists and
organizations working in response to the needs of their communities and the
dynamics of the world. We have the third in a series coming out at the end
of this month that is focused on New Mexico artists and organizations.
We’ve also toured extensively internationally with our multimedia
performances
Obstacle Illusion and
Worlds in A Life. We
have a new one that we’ll be touring with soon called
Stories About People and Everyone Else
which investigates what a story is and how much can be left out for
audiences to fill in for themselves.
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| Photo by ACVilla |
Long run and one-offs
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Many albums are one-offs, with groups that never played again. It stems
from leading an itinerant lifestyle. I also have projects that have had
years-long lives, multiple albums and performances. Those include six trio
albums with Nels Cline. Revolving members include
William Parker
, Michael Wimberly, Pauline Oliveros
[1932-2016] and Terry Riley. Tsigoti just released a fifth album,
No Vacation from Poverty. The Estamos project has four albums
including two by large ensembles and two by a trio with
Carmina Escobar
and Milo Tamez. There are several albums with
Rent Romus
and Bloom Project. Several with Arrington de Dionyso, several with
John Dieterich [of Deerhoof]. I don't have any one main
project or projects, except for my solo work. So, a lot of side projects
that are all important! I live on the road, so this gives me the
opportunity and time to meet with musicians along my travels, either on
stage or in the studio. I wouldn’t say necessarily that they represent a
certain period of my playing but more what my collaborators bring out of me
that I may not have known was there previously. I don’t have a grand vision
as an improviser, it’s truly about being in the moment, challenging and
supporting each other, diving deeply into my curiosity and finding the
beauty in what is created and ultimately how this informs myself as a human
being in this world. For many of these albums the particular group of
musicians never met again and certainly never toured. It’s kind of an
anti-model in a hyper-capitalist society.
Defining your own music
Ah, you were just buttering me up with the easy questions! My music is an
ever-changing amalgam swirling in the confluence of infinite rivers –
something like that. I’ve called myself an
eccentriclect, and my
music as
omni-idiomatic in the sense that my influences and
interests are eclectic, in that I’m open to ideas and inspirations from
infinite sources and experiences and that I don’t want to be burdened by
anyone’s idea of what should be. Depending on albums and eras I’ve been
called a free jazz pianist, a post-classical improviser, a punk rocker and
more. I prefer to always remain independent in search of other independent
minds and creators and to encourage others in order not to succumb to the
pressures to conform which are constantly attacking us in myriad ways. I’m
doing all I can to assist in humanity’s evolution into a more mature,
playful, creative relationship with our world and each other. My
involvement in music making both solo and in collaboration is always coming
from this place. The actual aesthetics are less important generally
speaking, but crucially important situationally. I love to explore the
value of different aesthetics and how that changes my relationship with
music, art and fellow artists.
How projects are born
Primarily, I want to work with people I enjoy being with, and that share my
vision of communality both musically and supra-musically. Joy and curiosity
have got to be there before anything else of interest can happen. This I
have learned through many varied experiences. So, many collaborations
happen as anything else in life, because I happen to be in the same space
and time with someone, and ideas generate organically out of a mutual
experience. That is not always the case, of course, but it generally is. I
often live by
“What if?” and
“Why not?”. This is the basis
for experimentation. “
What if I bring these different elements or
artists together in this particular setting?”,
“What will happen with the least amount of guidance from me?”
A big part of the practice of my interaction with music making is a cycle
that continually builds on itself. Sometimes collaborations are well
planned out and often they happen because of our lifestyle of living on the
road. We haven’t lived in our own place in over fifteen years and own
almost nothing except what is essential to our lifestyle and that we can fit
in our carry-on size backpacks. This has afforded us the ability to
collaborate with amazing artists as well as document communities, like with
our Artists Engaged series
[Everything can be streamed freely through:
www.artistsengaged.com].
Part 2 continues here
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